) new movie (American Ghosthunter); and also shares his candid thoughts on other paranormal reality shows, ouija boards, ghost hunting, demons, faith and sexuality in this revealing new interview by our own Gerri Miller.In the intro to each episode of Paranormal State you say that a childhood experience with the paranormal terrified you and changed your life. The paranormal community wants to know...what happened?
That’s always the big question I get. They pulled a lot of teeth even getting me to say that. People think I’m holding out for the movie rights! I give a teeny bit more in my book, I talk about the emotional impact it had on me. But I just don’t think people would understand it. I don’t know if I’d want people to know what happened. I know that leads to speculation and rumor. Someone claims they knew me when I was young and that I was a devil worshiper. Did you ever have something that was so personal to you and had such a profound effect on you and it’s not like you’re trying to keep a secret but you just want it to be yours?
I’m a very private person so it’s weird that I [even] have a TV show.
So whatever it was, why do you think this entity came to you when it did?
I have my reasons as to why it may have appeared. The experiences happened over a couple of years off and on. This was down in South Carolina. My stepdad was away for the Gulf War. My mom was stressed out because I’d been scared by something and she was talking to a friend for advice. When your child starts saying they’re having supernatural experiences, who do you turn to? I’m sure she felt alone and powerless. She was talking to this neighbor and I was lying in bed and overheard the conversation they were having about the Bible and the Book of Revelation. This lady said, ‘people who were chosen by God to do something great and have a spark or a light attract the most darkness.” I remember at a very young age telling God, ‘If I’m supposed to go through some trial and tribulation and this is some sort of test I’ll accept it.’ Some people might think I mean I’m on some magical, religious quest but at the end of the day, essentially, that’s the meaning of life. I was raised Catholic; it was shoved down my throat and I resisted but I later found appreciation for it. It always bothered me when people criticized the religious aspect of the show. If your house was haunted by ghosts or a violent spirit or entity, how else do you get rid of it? Do you expect your video recorder to suck up the ghost? We’re not Ghostbusters! Maybe it’s psychological, but once we bring in religious or spiritual removal there is a change in the house. The supernatural activity stops. The people feel better, and a lot of times the activity stops. You can’t argue with those results. Our show isn’t a Christian-based show. We always work in the clients’ belief system. It happens that most of our clients are Christian but we’ve had Jewish clients and rituals. There’s a Jewish exorcism that’s way darker than the Christian version.
How do all the cases come to you?
Every way. I’ve been in a café and a woman came up to me asking for help. But mostly e-mails, phone calls and letters. We get so many. We get thousands a month, easily.
How do you choose?
The producers just want scary and good personality but I pretty much dictate what we investigate and that goes on the show. A lot of reality shows tend to get way more over the top as they go on. I’m trying to make ours more real, something that stands out so people can one day say, ‘this was the best paranormal documentary.’ We have three criteria. One, does the client genuinely believe they’re being haunted, and if so are they in danger? Second, all things being equal, does it seem likely that this phenomenon is going on and that it could be harmful? And three, does it have some sort of scientific or moral benefit for the viewing public? Our priority cases are ones where people are in danger, where there’s something violent happening. There’s no way to check ahead of time whether a case is genuinely paranormal.
It seems sometimes that people don’t tell you the complete truth and you find out later on that they were a devil worshipper or into black magic or something. Does that frustrate you?
Not as frustrating for me as for my teammates who are new at interviewing. I have 13 years of experience and I’ve worked with many different experts from psychologists to police officers and have been trained a bit. So I know and understand and accept that clients are human and are afraid of being judged so they lie a little bit, or withhold. I tend to give them a second chance. And when they say, ‘Oh, I forgot to tell you this,’ I say, ‘I understand, but now is the time to tell me everything.’”
What draws you in particular to the dark cases, ones with a malevolent entity?
This may sound crazy but I feel that the cases draw themselves to us. They draw us there.
Your team has changed since you first formed PRS at Penn State.
Yes. We’re in a college town, and I like it here, but others get tired of the scene. Heather’s gone, Katrina’s only half time, Eilfie is half time and Josh stepped out after a few episodes. So we bring in new trainees, but the show isn’t that different. It’s a slow transition and by the spring you’ll see more of a permanent new cast. I never bring new people on demonic cases because the experience can be scary. Dark secrets like having done drugs or sexual secrets, you suddenly feel guilty and naked. It can come out of nowhere and you start to feel crazy.
What do you do to prepare yourself mentally and spiritually before you go on an investigation?
If I think it’s a dangerous case I’ll do my own spiritual preparation, go to Mass. It’s called being in a state of grace. You go to Mass, you say confession and you receive Communion. When you go to Mass your soul is purified, when you receive Communion that’s accepting the blood and body of Christ so you’re accepting God in, and when you say confession all your sins are forgiven so after doing those things you’re pretty much like a newborn baby.
Have you ever inadvertently brought a spirit home with you from an investigation, has one attach itself to you?
No. But I’ve had very bizarre paranormal experiences at my own house. Sometimes before I go on a case something will happen. When you’re around the spirit world all the time it’s likely you’ll bring something back. Right now I live with Serge and Katrina; when she comes up to do a case, she’ll stay with us. They’re very much convinced that this house is haunted. I’m lying in my room my bedroom door opens and I hear footsteps but there’s nobody there. Then my closet doors open up. But it doesn’t bother me the way it bothers other people.
What can we expect in the fifth season?
Every season we try to better ourselves. Now that I’m co-executive producing I’m trying to raise the bar, make it more compelling, much higher stakes. This new season is a more stylistic, more verité. The cases are more personal so it’s a lot darker. There are some really dark cases this season, ranging from a woman so haunted by spirits that she committed suicide. She kept begging for help and her whole family knew there was something paranormal going on but they just ignored it and finally the day before she died she was telling everybody how this thing was getting worse and the next day they found her hanging in the garage. This woman had written to Paranormal State. Her family said she watched it because it was like therapy for her.
Which is the scariest case you’ve done so far this year?
A case we did in Weymouth, Massachusetts. Have you ever heard of pukwudgies? It’s this phenomenon in Native American folklore. These little supernatural beings called pukwudgies had a falling out with mankind. Because they’re so tiny, they throw little arrows at the lower parts of your body, They try to lure children to their deaths to get revenge on man. All the attributes of pukwudgies were happening to this middle class family that never had heard of pukwudgies. While we were there, Chad [Calek] and I felt pinching on our legs and I felt like something was yanking my shirt, and it happened to Chad twice. You can see it on the video. What made it so scary, pukwudgies sound a lot like demons: they had a falling out with man and God because they were jealous. And while we were there the place felt so creepy and threatening. There was noise and banging. And the moment the sun came up all the activity stopped. The episode is called ‘They Come Out at Night’. It made us think, ‘If this folklore is real what other folklores are real too?’ It wasn’t the scariest of all time but it’s definitely up there. There have been a lot of times this season where I’ve jumped a little bit. 
What’s the creepiest EVP you’ve ever recorded?
One that comes to mind happened in 2002, a residential case in State College. Every time we went into a room in this house the activity would stop and go into another room. We--I had a student film crew with me--went up to the attic, and I had a tape recorder. As I entered, I thought I heard footsteps and scratching and I played back my recorder and I got a voice, a really deep, dark, scratchy voice that screamed ‘go away!’ It was so unbelievably clear. You can’t explain something like that as a radio signal. I believe in the supernatural but having physical evidence like that really shocked me.
Some people believe that demons masquerade as children on EVPs to fool people. Do you agree?
There’s something called Deceptive Phantom Theory. Extremely religious people believe there are no ghosts, just demons masquerading as people to get sympathy. I don’t buy that it’s all demons. Ghosts are as complicated as human beings. There are complicated ghosts who may be angry or lie to you or hurt you, just like human beings can.
Do you have any interest in aliens or Bigfoot or other cryptids? Would you do any investigations about them?
Oh yeah. I definitely do. We were going to do a monster case in the water and had to push that back but it might play out later in the season. We still have ten episodes to shoot. There will be 20 episodes and we’re only halfway done. We will definitely do a monster or UFO case. I’ve been dying to do the Loch Ness Monster. Not this season, but we’ve talked about going overseas, and if we decide to come back for another season we will do the Loch Ness Monster.
How do you feel about the Ouija board? Does it invite spirits, particularly malevolent ones, into the home?
Nothing is black and white, all good or all evil. The Ouija board is kind of like allowing your ten-year-old daughter to go on the Internet and instant message with someone who claims to be another ten-year-old girl and asks for her address and ends up being a 55 year-old child predator. You don’t know who you’re talking to and there’s no way to prove someone is who they say they are. A Ouija board is very much like having unprotected sex with someone you don’t know. It’s a big gamble. People use Ouija boards and nothing ever happens but there are people who use a Ouija board for fun and the next thing you know it leads to something that destroys them and their family. We don’t use it for entertainment. We have a couple of times to get information but we’re professionals, we know how to deal with that stuff and we understand the repercussions.
Do you think amateur ghost investigators understand how dangerous this work can be?
No, but at the same time it’s very hard to make them appreciate something that they can’t comprehend.
So do you have advice for someone who wants to get into it?
Don’t ever underestimate these things. The biggest thing is education. Always learn and research and keep learning. Don’t just start a Website and put up some pictures and suddenly call yourself a ghost hunting team. Don’t act like you know everything because you did two cases. Be responsible. Don’t handle client cases until you’re ready to help them. Clients aren’t looking for someone to go in there and say, ‘Congratulations, your house is haunted, here’s a free hat.’ They want help. Don’t go in there seeking a thrill at their expense.
What are the biggest mistakes that amateur ghost hunters make?
Being too gullible. At the very beginning you’re so excited that you think everything is paranormal. You hear a knocking sound, and ‘it’s a ghost!’ They jump to conclusions too fast. They perceive things to be paranormal that may not be paranormal because they’re so excited and want to believe and have an experience so badly. I was there. There was one case I did where a little boy named Damian was seeing dead people, just like The Sixth Sense, and we were hearing sounds upstairs in the hallway. It ended up being a faulty floorboard but I didn’t want to believe that. Now sometimes with the trainees I say, “I know you want to have that thrill but to be honest, it will be much more rewarding when it actually happens.’
What past investigation still haunts you, keeps you up at night?
Before Paranormal State I did some investigations for the Catholic Church, involving these very high-ranking priests and for clients who were pretty prominent. One pretty severe case shook me. Someone that may have been under the influence of a spirit threatened me. They were trying to kill me with a knife. There are definitely times when I will lie in bed at night, replaying the day’s events. It’s always at nighttime when it’s quiet and I think, ’I don’t know what made me do that. Maybe I should just quit.’ I’ve tried to do that a couple of times. People say to me, “I wish I had your job,’ but I fantasize about being a normal red-blooded American guy, traveling, having a nine to five job.
What’s the furthest you’ve traveled for a case?
We’ve done California, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, gone up to Maine, all the corners of this country. I personally prefer when it’s local because the travel is so exhausting. And now that I’m the executive producer of the show I don’t just show up and investigate. I have to make sure the show tells a documentary story.
Are you still based at Penn State?
I’m not a student, I’m not on campus, but I live in a professional neighborhood half a mile from the university. I graduated in 2006 with my first degree and I was working on another one but I had to drop by the second season of the show because of the work schedule.
That schedule is pretty busy, with your book, movie and other projects in addition to Paranormal State. Tell us about them.
I never planned on or expected to do a TV series based on me being a paranormal investigator. I had plans to be a freelance journalist and a filmmaker, and I’ve been doing that while doing Paranormal State, which I see as being more my life as opposed to a TV show. The movie is a documentary called American Ghost Hunter. If you watch all these paranormal shows, it’s about the evidence, the people who are haunted. This is about what makes a man or a woman spend their lives calling themselves a ghost hunter, what makes them do this. The movie isn’t so much about ghosts per se—that kind of takes a backdrop. It’s about Chad, who’s a guest investigator on Paranormal State—it’s his journey. I’m there as well, watching and observing. Like me, Chad had paranormal experiences when he was a kid that tore his entire family up. His family had a haunting and his mom underwent possession, arguably demonic possession. The family is still suffering from this to this day. He investigates this seemingly normal family from Iowa and the film shows how it was torn apart because of a paranormal experience. The film shows what made Chad, who was a filmmaker and a documentarian in L.A. and a music video director, become a paranormal investigator. I have a TV project with Chad and his team called The Ghost Prophecies. It’s going to be on A&E and will be produced by Chad and myself. It will be on sometime this fall.
How does it differ from Paranormal State?
Chad and I are very different investigators. I’m inspired by journalism and detective work and also use spirituality a bit and it mixes into Paranormal State. It’s about the experience, the clients, some sort of emotional and spiritual closure. Chad is about evidence and his and his team’s experience, not the client’s experience. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. I go into residential houses. He goes into asylums. If you watch other shows, and I don’t watch them much, it’s all very stand-alone; they go into a place, kid around and do some investigating. The movie is about what made Chad this way. Chad is a storyteller so the series will not only be about the evidence but about the investigators. Chad’s married and one of his teammates, Mary Beth, is married and has kids, and they go to a hotel in New Mexico where there’s a padlocked room where the rumor is if you go in you die. They decide to stay the night in this room, and their families are worrying. It shows there’s another side to this.
And the book project?
I have a fictional book I’m working on but first I have a book coming out Sept. 22 that kind of involves Paranormal State. It’s called Paranormal State: My Journey into the Unknown. I wanted to do a book based on my experiences and go way behind the scenes of the show. I don’t think people will find what they’re expecting because it’s not some fluffy little companion piece. The book starts off at the end of an era for PRS. We’re all about to graduate so my team members have left, and we get offered to do this show. It follows not only the cases but behind the scenes. We shoot for 2 ½ days, 12 hours each day so that’s about 30 hours per camera and there are three cameras. That’s 90 hours of footage. People watch 22 minutes of a show and have no idea what went on, like directors quitting because of an experience they had in a cemetery. So I break it down and tell this multi-layered story.
Are you making any promotional appearances?
I have a premiere book signing in State College on Oct. 2 at Barnes & Noble. Then I do one in Chicago on Oct. 18 at Borders Oak Brook and one in New York City on Oct. 20.
Any plans to do one on Halloween?
When Halloween rolls around I like to shut myself in my house and not do anything. I don’t want to work on Halloween. I’d rather stay in and watch a movie. I like to be non-committal on Halloween and pick up and go somewhere if I want to. My youngest sibling is 12 years old now and I’m debating going trick or treating with him since it’ll be his last year.
You say you don’t watch other paranormal shows much, but are there any you like?
It’s very hard for me to watch because I have very high expectations. Ghost Hunters opened up the discussion about real-life ghost hunting. I respect that. I don’t necessarily agree with their methods but we’re pioneers here, there’s no handbook or bible. It would be silly for me to bash another show because they do it differently than we do. If it’s not my cup of tea it doesn’t mean I hate them, it’s just not for me.
There are more paranormal shows than ever now. What do you think about the big business aspect of the paranormal?
That ticks me off because there are shows popping up now where you can tell it’s just for a thrill or money, trying to cash in on this. For us it’s a way of life. This is what I do, what I seriously invest in and believe in. I’m trying to help people. So to suddenly see people trying to cash in I get very angry about it. It pisses me off.
With the increased attention and recognition for what you do, is there added pressure to come up with results each time?
Yeah, there is, but I’ve pushed that out. Every show out there is copying Paranormal State, trying to implement the things we do. Not just our methods but how we film the show, cinematically. It’s flattering, but you don’t want to become a parody of what you do so you’ve got to keep growing and pushing. There is an expectation to make it scarier. It is the fifth season, you can’t have it be the same thing. But I never give into that pressure of ‘maybe we should fake something.’ Never. In this season there are quite a few cases where we walk out saying we didn’t find any paranormal activity. These shows are built on credibility. If you lose your credibility there goes your viewers. They watch the show because they want to believe it’s real.
You’re very compassionate towards the people in your cases. Where does that empathy come from?
It’s because I’ve been where they’ve been. I understand how they feel when they say they feel alone and helpless. They’re the 8, 9, 10 year-old child that was me who felt like he had no one to talk to or help deal with something I wasn’t trained to deal with. Our society treats ghosts and spirits so differently than other cultures do. We’re screaming and running out of the house and freaked out by the supernatural. We don’t understand it. So I understand how they feel so lost. They need some spiritual guidance.
You get guidance from people like psychic Lorraine Warren. What have you learned from your relationship with her? What has she taught you?
Lorraine helped save my life in some respects. I have this conference called UnivCon, a paranormal conference, and three years ago I wanted to have Lorraine speak with this exorcist, a Catholic priest, Father LaBar. But he suddenly dropped out and wouldn’t tell us why. There’s a group of priests and a former investigator partner of mine, a psychologist who became super-religious, and they were going around to churches saying things about me, lies and judgments, to convince them not to work with me. I’m bisexual. And my former partner, who I opened up to about this at the time we were working together, since he was a therapist, was making up all these lies about me. Lorraine, who is a very old-school Catholic, and you’d assume she’s set in her ways, told me she spoke to my former partner. “He said the most awful things about you. He said you were bisexual.” She sounded so upset and I thought she was going to shut me out too. I already had these priests do it, and they were supposed to be men of God. I didn’t know if I could handle it if she did too. I told her it was true. I’ve never lied about it. Whenever I’ve worked on a demonic case I’ve always told the priest. Lorraine said, ‘Honey, I don’t care that you’re bisexual. I love you. There’s nothing wrong with that,’ and she went on a tirade about this guy who’s supposed to be my friend, and the priests. She was so angry about that. The reason I say she saved me, for a lot of people who are gay, lesbian or bisexual there’s a make or break moment for them, they’ve been judged so much. I was literally about to turn away from God at that point and walk away from the Church. Lorraine said, ‘They are men, they are not God, and they can commit sins too, so don’t turn your back on God because a human being who’s a priest is a bad person. There are good priests out there too.’ She helped bring me closer to God. Most gays, lesbians and bisexuals stray from God because they’re told God hates them. Now I’m trying to get them to stay spiritual. That’s why I open up about this in my book. You don’t need to shut yourself out of spirituality and faith. It’s these people who are wrong. God doesn’t hate anybody for who they choose to love or the color of their skin.
How has fame impacted your life and affected your work?
The obvious is when I do a case and a bunch of fan girls show up. I’m working here, you know? It kind of gets annoying. One of our most emotional cases was one called ‘I Am Six,’ with the little girl, Laura. We did a follow-up. I’ve had people come up to me and say, ‘That was so good! Will there be a part 3?’ You know, this is real life. This is a real family. It’s not a scripted TV show with a cast of characters. In order to be a part 3 there has to be more suffering going on. I understand where they’re coming from. My teammates are a little more upset about it than I am. I also get people coming up to me asking, ’Is all that stuff real? Is what you do real?’ I lost my temper at this one event with this guy who asked that. I blew him off and walked away and I could tell he was hurt by it, and later on I apologized and he apologized. But I hate when people treat what we do like we’re in a cage in a zoo, there to entertain them. I say, ‘This is a documentary. I’m doing this for me and for the people. You’re just along for the ride.’
How important is social media to you then, interacting with fans?
I don’t do it that much. I haven’t been on MySpace in over a year. People get upset when I don’t respond to them on Twitter and start bashing me when I don’t answer them. I’m just so busy. Here’s how I see it. I can either spend a lot of time interacting with fans or I can read a letter from someone who needs help. But I’m not bashing my fans. I have the best fans in the world. We’ve had cases where we needed help from fans to either raise money or something as simple as prayers or to help spread a message and tens of thousands of them would push it out there. Every Thursday night at 9 I have a Web show where fans can learn about the paranormal, they can ask us questions, video chat with us. It’s called Paranormal Insider TV. And I’m throwing a free party when my book comes out in appreciation, here in State College on Oct. 2.
What professional and personal goals do you set for yourself?
I want to be a public servant for some period of time in some capacity, if not running for office, helping somebody who’s in office, trying to help in some way, for minorities or the poor or education. When I’m older I want to go back to high school or college and teach journalism. Journalistic integrity is almost gone these days. That’s what I got my degree in. I was a freelance journalist for a while.
Will you hang up your paranormal activities eventually to focus on those things or will you always keep doing investigations?
I’ll always be doing the paranormal but maybe not for a show. I’m very proud of Paranormal State. I truly believe it’s busted down that taboo door of ‘we can’t talk about this,’ but I’d love to eventually be in a position like Ed and Lorraine Warren where I can travel the world doing cases privately.
